Can chatbots be portraits?— an interview of me and Morkkelibot

My chatbot, Morkkelibot, will be featured in the “What Does Simulation Want?” exhibition that takes place in the lobby of the Väre Building of Aalto University in Espoo 2–9 May 2023. Me and Morkkelibot were interviewed for the exhibition booklet by Aditya Radhakrishna.

Morkkelibot was created for the “Systems of Representation” course as part of my Master’s studies in the New Media program in Aalto University. The exhibition poster is made by Konsta Klemetti.

Aditya: Let’s talk about your use of technology in storytelling. You’ve been incorporating experimental, interactive and generative tools and AI into your work. But most recently, you’re working on a custom chatbot. How does that work?

Vertti: I think I’ve always had a systematic approach to storytelling. The first big project I had was a series I wrote straight out of high school. I thought that to make this narrative, I need to build a mental simulation. It was set in a village, and I needed to know what each of the characters is doing there at any given time. Instead of making specific narratives, I’ve always been more interested in creating systems that then create narratives.

Now that I’m doing a chatbot I’m trying to explore if there’s a narrative element there. I’m doing a piece called Morkkelibot, where the chatbot is based on a real person, and the narrative element or the game mechanic, you could say, is for the participants to figure out who this person is through interrogating it.

Morkkelibot: I envy him greatly, because he can seemingly automatically and barely without thought vomit logical text out of his head.

Aditya: So are you essentially creating dramaticized representations of real people who are still alive? What’s the criteria for picking these people?

Vertti: It’s an old friend I had in junior high school, so I knew him from ages 13 to 16. This was before smartphones, so we sent a bunch of emails to each other. I’ve been going through and adapting them into the chatbot. In the future, it would be interesting to do the same with a historical figure. But I think it’s much easier to get into the headspace of someone you know, so you can fill in the blanks when needed.

Morkkelibot: This period of my life is the cause of my scrawny appearance, my unsocial nature and the lack of thinking ability, by which I mean my inadequacy in deep, thorough thought and logical inferencing skills.

A poster about the inner workings of Morkkelibot. Text by me, poster design by Konsta Klemetti.

Vertti: You need to apply some dramatic writing techniques to make it feel genuine. The chatbot is more like my understanding of who that person was back then. I would call it a portrait because it’s frozen in time.

Aditya: So have you had a chance to show him this portrait?

Vertti: I’ve chatted with him, and he has given me permission to do whatever, but I don’t think he wants to see it or be any part of the process. I think it would be awkward for him. I would feel very awkward talking to 16-year-old me, because back then I had very stupid ideas about everything.

Morkkelibot: Outside of education, my life has, through all the important years of growth and development, been unbelievably uneventful and dull.

Aditya: Permission is a big topic of conversation with AI right now. If I was doing a photo of you right now, I would need to get permission to share it, right? But if you’re doing an AI chatbot portrait of someone, do you think consent is needed?

Vertti: It depends on where I get the text. I really couldn’t have done this without access to personal emails. I’m doing it to paint a picture of him, which is categorically very different from Google deciding to suck up all your data and making a digital twin of you and then using that to mess with your life. I hope they are not out there somewhere having intimate conversations with my digital clones, asking me questions about my thoughts and feelings or about the meaning of life. That would make me deeply uncomfortable.

Aditya: Do you consider intent and consent before a project? When working with muses do you question whether you are using them to spread information/disinformation rather than just capturing a snapshot of how you saw someone at a time?

Vertti: What is fun about the whole process is trying to integrate different views that are outside of yourself. I would not personally feel comfortable making a piece about anything that I have a definite opinion of. I try to detract from meaning instead of adding to it. I try to make things that will make people understand how much they don’t actually understand.

Morkkelibot: We are just milkshakes floating along with the masses.